Note: Karen De La Carriere discusses the OSA Network Orders and other matters with Corey Andrews. Corey Andrews apparently leaked his recording of this telephone call ca. December 2019. My transcript follows.1
Transcript: Karen de la Carriere with Corey Andrews (mid 2019)
K: Corey. Hello. Sorry. I’m calling a bit later than I thought. I’m really jammed today.
C: That’s all right.
K: So did you open that link I sent you?
C: Yep. I’ve been reading through it. All the..
K: Right. What it is is, it’s a compilation of OSA’s bible. Office of Special Affairs.
K: This is their bible. However, you cannot post that link. And you can’t use–, you can always take a specific issue or a specific paragraph here and there. But I’ll explain to you why you can’t use that link.
C: Well, what’s the extent of like, can I, can I take words from the page and just share it?
K: Oh no, you can take the whole… you can take a whole issue from a page.
K: You can take the whole issue from beginning to end. Or you can take the full paragraph, or you can take sentences. You can take–. Let me tell you what happened.
A very, very senior executive was asked by David Miscavige himself to put together all the Guardian Office orders and anything else that could be the reference for the way OSA operates. Office of Special Affairs, right?
K: So while he was compiling this, it was all in his laptop, he blew. He fled. And when we found that it had been posted on the web, cuz the link I sent you is right there on the web. It’s there for everyone to see, except people don’t know how to look for it, right?
K: When we put it up on Outer Banks, he immediately asked for it to be taken down. And he said that, that technically they could make… It doesn’t seem to have happened, cuz it’s been up for 3-4 years, but he was worried he could be sued because when he fled with his laptop, that was propriet [unintelligble.]
C: What’s that? I think I’m losing you.
K: So, so. Pardon?
C: I thought I was losing you for a second.
K: Oh, sorry. Sorry. No. So he felt…you know how big corporations have a thing of proprietary data, which, if you leave, the data that you got while you worked for them belongs to them. Right?
K: There are different court cases that have been won. For example, if you worked for Coca-Cola and you absolutely know the recipe for Coke, and you go then work for Pepsi-Cola, you can’t take the secrets of Coca-Cola, just because you worked for them and you were privy to a bit of formulas and this and that. You then can’t–
K: –take Coca-Cola’s ah, intellectual properties. And there have been many court cases where the judges favor the company that had the proprietary data. Anyway, I was asked emphatically to not post the link. Okay to post content. Cuz you’re not posting the whole shebang. You’re taking out… I mean all these policy letters are available either some of them are in Flag Orders, some of them are in green volumes.
Oh! I can send you a link of the Flag Orders! Those are beauties!
C: Oh, yeah. I’d like that as well.
K: Yeah! You’re such a great ah, poster, you have all kinds of ammunition. But! Now the guy who released this. His name is Scott Gordon. And he’s a lunatic. He’s an absolute wacko.
K: And he goes after Mike Rinder viciously. And Leah. And me. And Tony. But he really is wacko. He believes in incredible conspiracy theories. Right?
K: And he believes, for example– don’t waste your time studying–, but he believes that I’m part of what they call “Deep State.” That’s like very, very deep intelligence, CIA, la la la la la.
C: Ha ha.
K: And he’s very friendly with a couple of wackos called Virginia and Mike McClaughry. Mike McClaughry is famous for a video where he laughs at the fact that he put LSD on a pregnant woman’s toothpaste.
C: I’ve heard, heard about that, yeah.
K: Mike, Michael was Guardian Office. Michael was Guardian Office. Yeah. And Scott, Virginia and Mike are a little triage of, ah, you know? They … they’re a cabal. They just foster and feed each other, right?
C: I hear you.
K: You know, I’ve had enemies. We all develop enemies when we’re number one. But these three… But, but nobody believes them because they’re so off… Virginia has a huge post on me that I was MI6 on the Apollo with Hubbard. That Hubbard was MI6. MI6 is a British like, like the British intelligence. Like British CIA. They didn’t even exist in the ’70s.
K: MI6 only got formed in the late 1980s.
K: It may have had a different name or whatever, but it wasn’t MI6. Right?
K: And anybody who trained and sweated to the degree that I have would get out [the classroom]. If I wanted to be intelligence, would I have led–. (chuckles) God. It is so off the wall that when you read it you know that they’re wacko. So the guy who posted this used to be the OSA rep of Dallas, Dallas Org and Puerto Rico. He had a dual hat. Right?
K: He had to report, report things to… And he had a huge falling out with the, I forget all of the da da da. So he… what happened is, this got sent to someone whose instructions… All I want to tell you is, it’s an eye- opener. Because, you know, you’ll find out entire… You, you wanted…
So, so never, never, never, ah, engage or play ball with Scott Gordon. He’s completely…
C: Yeah, yeah. I hear you 100% on him. Yeah.
C: I’ve, I’ve heard a lot of bad about him anyways, you know? Before you talked about it.
K: Yeah. Well, what he did is…sorry…he tried to bring Virginia’s lunacy and her conspiracy theories onto Outer Banks.
K: And I went, I removed the, the… And I said, “We do not want Virginia’s conspiracy theories here.” He was furious. He cut and pasted that post of mine and a screenshot… a lot of Outer Banks members and all … and then he went and posted it in other, other areas. Right?
K: [ ] He did a thing. So I think Rod Keller removed him. One of the mods removed him because he was taking stuff and deliberately, um, you know?
K: Putting it on other sites. That will really get you removed fast.
C: Stirring the pot. Yeah.
K: Because people have an expectation of privacy. But he started the war. Virginia left me alone. She, she’s a little nut case. And I never… But once, once Scott tried to bring her into Outer Banks, I put my foot down. Because, if you have a forum, and there are nutcases posting absolutely weird shit over the top, over the moon, you know… “Hubbard was really Intelligence.” “Hubbard was actually CIA.” And da da da da da. This is like, it, it’s so… It sounds wacko.
C: Yeah. No. It’s people without a leg to stand on.
K: Hubbard was a lot of things, but he wasn’t CIA.
C: It’s just people without a leg to stand on that are talking and saying that.
K: Right. Right. So anyway, I wanted to tell you this. This is a motherlode. This is just a dream for you. This, this whole link I sent you. Right?
K: Because it gives plotting, planning, agendas, how to take over the world. Uh, how… Right? Remember that one that started all this, where I posted how she said Hubbard would… You know?
C: Yeah, yeah. I follow you.
K: Hubbard, Hubbard said the world was to obey Scientology… dee, dee, dee, dee, dee. So when you have time here and there, you can slowly wade through it. Take out a… take out a dynamite paragraph and, you know?
C: Oh, yeah. My eyes, my eyes are glowing over this document.
K: (Talking over each other) –issue. But don’t do it in a way–. What, sweetheart?
C: I said my eyes are glowing over this document. There’s, there’s just so much information to sift through, you know?
K: Yes. Yeah, you’re going to be senior to, ah, a million posters because you’ve got something that you can slowly trickle out here and there. But don’t ever refer to Scott Gordon’s link or… I mean, technically it’s on the internet.
K: And he posted it on a board called Ex-Scientology Message Board. It’s not like I… that I’m the source of any of this. I just pointed you to what is already on the web. I just gave you the directions to what other people have posted. Huh?
C: Does the OSA know, that this is out there? Like do they know that this link is here?
K: Yeah, because they watch Scott Gordon. Because even though Scott Gordon is very anti-Mike Rinder, anti-Leah, anti-me, anti-Tony Ortega, and anti– [unintelligible]. He.. he’s like a little Alanzo. In fact, Alanzo and him are friends.
C: Oh boy. Yeah.
K: Birds of a feather flock together.
K: So, oh I’m sure the cult know. They follow all these things. But they’re hoping that it’ll be just dead and buried. And you can’t resurrect it by posting the link. Um, if, if, you get very friendly… if some media starts connecting with you, like a journalist or something. You can, you know… you can just send them the link.
C: Uh-hm. Like a journalist?
K: Yeah. Somebody who really wants the … the real skinny on the thingummy. The thing is that it’s on the internet. Anyone … it’s not….
C: Is it hard to find?
K: It’s right… um.
C: Or is it hidden, kind of?
I mean like I wouldn’t know how to find this on my own.
K: If you’re following… So people who… Scott Gordon does a whole lot of braying and hooplaing on the… on Facebook and different groups. There’s a hate group called “Scientology Deprogramming,” you know. And he’s a big mouth and a big noise in certain groups. But these are groups that HATE Leah. That HATE Mike Rinder. That HATE Jeffrey Augustine, my husband, that hate the big… And I think OSA is stirring the pot. I think OSA is. Because why would they only go after top critics? Right?
C: Yeah. It doesn’t make ah… it doesn’t make sense.
K: So you’re asking me how, how would I find it? Well, if you befriend Scott Gordon… he has a big mouth, he’s on a few hate groups. He brags of how he’s the one who put this out. Da da da da da. He got it in a very devious way, this list. But it belongs, it came from a very senior exec who doesn’t want the link posted. So you can’t post the link.
C: I understand. I’m not going to post it.
K: Yeah. But you can take out whole issues. Sometimes…
K: –it’s a paragraph. Sometimes it’s a whole page. Whatever. Use it to your advantage and…
C: It probably wouldn’t be ah–, I was going to say it probably wouldn’t be a good idea to share it then. Because what if they, somebody else posts it?
K: Yeah. You’re right. You’re right.
C: Because you know me.
K: You’re right. Sharing the whole link (talking over each other)
C: Because to be honest with you …I’m sorry… I was going to say, to be completely honest with you, there’s not really anybody that I come…that I trust completely on here. Like I mean, I trust you, you know.
C: And everybody else I feel like I’m just slowly building up relationships with everybody and trying to learn to trust certain people. But, you know,
C: …every, I give, I don’t, I don’t give a lot of trust out, you know?
K: Yeah. Yeah.
K: Yeah. Oh boy. I trusted a couple of people in the last few years that I totally trusted, absolutely turned on me. Like I was the devil with horns. It was just stunning. [ ] was one of them.
C: That’s why I don’t want to make that mistake. I don’t want to make that mistake, because I feel like it could happen to me. And I want to prevent a disaster. Like there’s a few friendships that I’m… There’s a few friendships that I’m just no longer sure of. And I feel like that’s my sign.
C: You know?
K: Yeah. Yeah. Better be safe than sorry.
K: You will never regret being…you will never regret being overly cautious. But you’ll definitely regret believing in someone you should not have believed. (Ha ha) That you will regret.
C: Ha ha.
K: –you were foolish enough to trust. You will regret forever that. But you’ll never regret not trusting. Because you didn’t do it in the first place. You never trusted.
K: So there’s nothing to regret. You held your tongue and you were conservative and you didn’t … you know?
C: Yeah. That’s what I’ve been learning to do.
K: So what, what…the way this puts you at a great advantage … and I’ll retweet all your tweets, and I’ll pump it up, and we’ll cross-post it all. But the way… it makes you look very, very educated, as you leak out, a little. Do it slowly. Let it trickle out.
C: All right.
K: Like not suddenly all that you, you’re just being the [ ]. You let it slowly trickle out. And it looks like, “Whoa! Corey knows how to find shit!” They won’t know that you got the, the link. They’ll suppose the specific issue… it’ll look like you really did your homework and found some hidden stuff!
C: I hear you.
K: Makes you look very good. You know?
C: Ha ha. Yeah.
K: So that’s why it was too complicated to try and say all this in an e-mail. That’s why I wanted to just talk live and explain to it. But basically, once it’s out on the web… Huh?
C: I said, definitely it’s better to talk on the phone.
K: Yeah. Oh, I know where else it got posted…on Why We Protest…the Anonymous site. The links are right there on the Anonymous site. Why We Protest. Right?
So it’s in various ah… but, but the Anonymous site simply posted Scott Gordon’s link. Right?
C: Right. And not a lot of people…
K: Because he’s the one that…
C: …are going to know what it really is, or what it contains. And a lot of people actually don’t have… a lot of people just don’t like to look through information to, to find the… you know, the real nitty-gritty stuff. Like ah…
C: A lot of people won’t.. .will not look through this huge doc. I’m going to spend hours looking through this thing. You know what I mean? Like there’s people that will not even give it five minutes.
C: Because it’s overwhelming.
K: Yeah. People in a rush, they want a quickie. They don’t want to take time to study.
C: They want all the information like summed up for them. Yeah.
K: Right. But you’ve got all the time in the world. I mean it could take, you could slowly… don’t over… you already [ ]. You could just do a few minutes a day of study of the [ ] . Cuz now that you’ve got the link, you own it. It’s not like a library book, you’ve got a three week time thing, and you have to return it or anything. You own the link! So you know, you could sit on it, slowly dribbling it out over a year! There’s no time… there’s no time pressure whatsoever on how fast you study it or when you leak anything. Right? There’s absolutely no time pressure.
Nice to have no time pressure, isnt’ it?
C: It is.
K: I hate time pressure. I’m always, I’m always running behind, giving myself time pressure to… Nice to have no time pressure. Nyah.
C: I agree.
K: All right my love.
C: All right.
K: I’ll sign off here, and let you go.
C: It’s been enlightening.
K: Yeah, yeah.
C: I look forward to getting some of this out there.
K: It, it definitely gives you an advantage, and it definitely gives you a head start over others that don’t, you know, that don’t have this in their back pockets. Definitely.
All right my sweetheart. Big hugs to you Corey dear. You are my, you are my dear, dear Corey.
K: All right, sweetheart. Take care. Bye bye sweetheart.
C: Allright. (Laughs) Yeah, I’ll talk to you later.
K: Bye bye sweetheart. Bye bye.
C: Bye bye. Bye bye.
- Also see:
- Why We Protest: Alleged Scientology OSA Network Orders. 549 pages.
- OSA INT ED: Department of Special Affairs Investigations Officer Full Hat Checksheet
- Karen de la Carriere briefing on trickling or dribbling by Gerry Armstrong ↩