Founding Church of Scientology
MEMORANDUM OF INTERVIEW — AUGUST 30, 1970
Between Mr. Samuel Moskowitz, 361 Roseville Avenue, Newark New Jersey (Phone No. 201-HU-5-3298)
And: Mr. Charles H. Everline, Hearing Officer, CMB, NYK-211
By prior appointment, I visited Mr. Moskowitz at his home to discuss information he reportedly had concerning the early history of Mr. L. Ron Hubbard. Mr. Moskowitz had informed Mr. Bud Loftus that he first heard Mr. Hubbard at a meeting that the only way to make a million dollars was to form your own religion.
Mr. Moskowitz stated that the meeting referred to was held at the Slovak Circle Hall on Morris Avenue in Newark, New Jersey on November 7, 1948. That the meeting was held with Mr. Hubbard in attendance was verified by two reports. FANTASY TIMES 12-15-48 issue on Page 6 states that the Society held a meeting on November 7th with Mr. L. Ron Hubbard as guest speaker. The FANTASY ANNUAL 1948 issue on Page 54 contains a summary of the monthly meetings of the Eastern Science Fiction Society. This also, stated that Mr. Hubbard was guest speaker at the November meeting. Mr. Alex Osheroff, Treasurer at the time, has advised Mr. Moskowitz that the minutes of the November 7, 1948 meeting are in existence. These minutes show that during a question and answer period, Mr. Hubbard spoke on his work “EXCALIBUR”. It was during these remarks that the statement about forming your own religion was made. Twenty-three people were in attendance at the meeting. These included Mr. Moskowitz, Mr. Osheroff, Mr. Alan Howard, Mr. Martin Greenberg and Mr. Oswald Train. The current addresses for Mr. Howard and Mr. Greenberg were not known by Mr. Moskowitz. Mr. Train is a publisher whose address is 1129 West Wingehocking Steet, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (phone no. DA 4-7738).
Following the meeting several of the people in attendance and Mr. Hubbard, went to the Hickory Grill and subsequently to Mr. Moskowitz’s home.While at the home, Mr. Train was hypnotized by Hubbard in an attempt to treat Mr. Train’s stuttering problem. Mr. Moskowitz had offered to pay Hubbard $100 if he could cure or even improve Mr. Train’s speech impediment. Mr. Hubbard was unsuccessful.
Mr. Hubbard did not attend any other meetings of the Society and Mr. Moskowitz was not in attendance at any other meetings where Mr. Hubbard may have spoken about forming your own religion.
We then discussed various other associates who might be familiar with Mr. Hubbard during the 1946 to 1955 time period. During these conversations, Mr. Moskowitz supplied the following names and addresses.
- Mr. John W. Campbell
1457 Orchard Road
Mountainside, New Jersey
(Phone No. AD 3-3420)Mr. Campbell was the publisher of “Amazing Science Fiction” and was the first person to hire Mr. Hubbard as a writer. He currently is employed by “Analog Science Fiction”. He may have information concerning Mr. Hubbard from 1938 to around 1952.
- Mr. A. E. van Vogt
Los Angeles, California
(Phone No. 463-7377)Mr. van Vogt is a writer who became involved in “Dianetics”. He set up the Los Angeles Dianetics Center around June or July 1950. He since has become disillusioned with Mr. Hubbard.
- Mr. Arthur J. Cox — current address unknown. Mr. Cox is a friend of Mr. van Vogt and wrote a two-part article on van Vogt which appeared in the “Science Fiction Advertiser”. The second of the two articles appeared in the July 1952 issue. The editor of this booklet was Mr. Edward Ludwig. In the second article, Mr. Cox refers to various letters from Hubbard to van Vogt discussing “EXCALIBUR” and “Dianetics”. The article also mentions that Hubbard was present at the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society on several occasions in 1948. The minutes of these meetings are reported in Shangri-la issues Nos. 5, 6 and 7. The one of primary interest is the April 15, 1948 meeting which is reported in Shangri-la No. 6 on Page 9. A copy of this page is attached for the record.2
- Forest Ackerman — L. Ron Hubbard’s agent still living somewhere in California but his current address is unknown.
- Mr. William Blackbeard — Mr. Blackbeard wrote an article entitled “Pip-squeak Prometheus Some Remarks on the Writings of L. Ron Hubbard”. This article originally appeared in 1948 in a local Journal3 and later was republished with some changes in the October 1962 issue of “Inside” starting on Page 23.4 Mr. Moskowitz has a copy of this article. It is an interesting analysis of Hubbard as a writer and also mentions the E meter.
Mr. Moskowitz also has in his possession a copy of the book entitled “Self Analysis in Scientology” copyright 1952 by L. Ron Hubbard; second printing 1953. I did not recall seeing this book during the early investigations of Scientology. In addition, there is an article in the November 1970 issue of “Amazing Science Fiction” entitled “Dianetics – a personal report by Barry Molzberg.
Mr. Moskowitz stated that when Mr. Hubbard went into “Dianetics and subsequently Scientology”, he did not keep track of him because this did not deal with science fiction. He does have a file on “Dianetics” and one on “Scientology”. Most of the information in these files are clippings from magazines and newspapers. The majority of these are personal opinion articles either pro or con on “Dianetics” and “Scientology”. They add very little, if anything, to information already at hand.
Mr. Moskowitz stated he will continue to look through his files in an effort to uncover another meeting at which he thought Hubbard made the same remark about forming your own religion. Should he encounter the report on this, he will contact me. It appears Mr. Moskowitz’s prime value is as a historian who has available early articles concerning Mr. Hubbard’s movements and contacts.
Charles H. Everline
cc: BD-310/Attn: B. Loftus
(P.O. Box 1647)